Limud Torah

with Rav Chaim

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Wed Nedarim 87

 

The Gemara says that Toch Kdai Dibur one may retract from his words except by Avodah Zara and Kiddushin. The Ran asks: what's the difference?

He Brings R' Tam who says that really from the Torah there is no such concept of retracting Toch Kdai Dibur. However, the Rabanan gave this Shiur so that a a student who's making a deal, if at the end of the deal he meets his Rebbi and needs to greet him, he should still be able to retract afterwords. Although this doesn't apply to most cases, but the Rabbis said to make this Halacha universal so that we shouldn't need to differentiate between different Halachos. However, they decided to keep Kiddushin and Avodah Zara on their Torah Din, that there is no retractions within Toch Kdai Dibur.

The Ran disagrees. If someone made a Neder and retracted Toch Kdai Dibur, it's a Neder form the Torah, so how can the rabbis allow you to actively transgress that Neder? (We have a rule that the rabbis can only allow one to transgress a Torah law passively)

So the Ran explains: that most laws people are not certain they mean it until after Toch Kdai Dibur. If they don't retract by then, we know that they must mean it and it takes effect. However, Kiddushin and Avodah Zara which are very serious matter, if they had not thought it through in the first place, they would never uttered it. So the very fact that he said it shows he means it completely as soon as it leaves his mouth.

 

Tues Nedarim 86

 

The Gemara is finding a case how can she Assur her work for after she gets divorced, since right now it's something that she doesn't have a power over. We cannot compare it to even selling a field he gave up for collateral, though it's not in his hands anymore, since he has the right to redeem it and it will be in his hands. Even if they stipulated that he can't redeem it up to ten years, but eventually it will be in his hands. However, a woman has no way to have herself divorced in order that her work may become her's.

Ran asks: the woman has the ability to say she doesn't want to work for the husband and she won't receive any food from the husband. So we see she has a way to force having her salary in her own hand.

Ran answers: that only works for what she needs to work (with making wool) for supplementary income. That the husband doesn't need  to worry about, since it's simple for her to keep that money separate. However, the problem here is that she also Assurs the housework that she needs to do, which is a problem for the husband, therefore he needs to Matir it. However, the Gemara has a problem, since there is no way for a woman o get charge of that since she cannot opt out even if he doesn't feed her.

 

Mon Nedarim 85

 

Rava says that when the owner Assurs pleasure to all Kohanim and Leviyim, since there is no one he can give it to, he has nothing he can do with it, so it becomes hefker and the Kohanim and Leviyim may take it themselves.

The Rashba says: therefore, if someone Assurs his fruits on himself, so it's Hefker and anyone may take them. However, if he goes to a Chachum who Matir the Neder, since retroactively it was never Assur to him, so retroactively it was never Hefker. So the one who took it needs to pay for them. Even though here we allow the Kohanim and Leviyam to take it and we're not worried that they're stealing perhaps the owner will have a Chachum Matir his Neder, since it's not common to have a Neder Matir.

The proof that we're not concerned that he'll Matir a Neder hat we allow a woman  that received Kiddushin on condition that she doesn't have any Nedarim on her to marry others (if she has Nedarim.) Why are we not afraid that she'll Matir the Neder and then retroactively she was a woman without Nedarim and the first Kiddushin takes effect, and now the second husband is living with a married woman. So we must conclude that it's very unlikely to Matir a Neder, so we don't worry it may happen.

The Ran disagrees. He holds that it's common to Matir Neder. We encourage people to Matir Neder, and for this reason we consider it a Davar Sheyesh Lo Matirim, since he really should be Matir it. Over there by the woman, we never allowed her to remarry. We only say that she's not Mikudeshes, since that's her status in the meanwhile. Even if we say that it is a licence for her to marry, that's only because we know she won't be Matir it forever and get herself in a lot of hot water by making her retroactively a married woman. However, when this reason doesn't apply we need to worry someone will Matir Neder.

So the Ran says, once he made a Neder and at this point he made it Hefker, so the Hefker can never be reversed, even if he's Matir Neder.

 
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