Limud Torah

with Rav Chaim

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Tues Nedarim 72

 

The Gemara has a a Shaila if someone could be maifer before he hears. The Gemara wants to bring a proof that before the Nesuin, both the husband and the father Maifer all Nedarim until now, since they can't do it do it anymore for these Nedarim after the Nesuin. The Gemare rejects it that the father starts up with her so that she would reveal to him all the Nedarim she made (to show him how angry she is.)

The Ran says there are those that require the same from the husband. ALthough he may still be Maifer after the Nesuin, but not for Nedarim that she made before the Nesuin. So he needs to know about, and be Maifer before the nesuin. However, there are those that versions don't require that by the husband. He may just simply say I'm being Maifer your Neder to take effect after I hear about it. Although after the Nesuin he cannot be Maifer by himself Nedarim she made after Airusin. However, since he can Maifer at that time, and the father already Maifer before Nesuin, we cna combine the two hafaros.

 

Mon Nedarim 71

 

If the father heard the neder and made hafara, while before the husband hears, he dies, if she receives Kiddushin that day, the second husband may do Hafara.

Ran explains that this may go according to Beis Hillel. Although he holds that the father's heter would weaken the Neder tot he point that it would be too weak to transfer the remainder to the father, still we say that the second husband may make Hafara. The reason is, the Neder is not transferring from the first husband's jurisdiction to the second husband's jurisdiction. Rather, the second husband is taking over the first husband's position and we consider him just a continuation of the first husband's jurisdiction.

 

Thurs Nedarim 67

 

If the husband makes Hafara and the father is Mikayim, so the Neder stands. However, if the father is Matir Neder for his Hakama and is Meifer, we do not combine it to the husband's earlier Hafara, since they weren't done at the same time.

Ran explains that it doesn't have to be done simultaneously, but it means it cannot combine with a Hakama in the middle. The Ramban holds that now the husband may Maifer a second time to combine with the father's. The Rambam holds that he lost his ability to be Maifer, since he already id it.

The Ran asks: Why don't we say that when he Matir Neder on the Hakama, it was if the Hakama never happened, so they should combine? We see a precedence to this: if a man marries a wife on condition she doesn't have Nedarim, Even if she had Nedarim, if she's Matir Neder we view that the Neder never happened and it's a good Kiddushin.

The Ran answers: over there, Kiddushin is an entity by itself. Therefore when she was Matir Neder, we say the kiddushin takes effect retroactively. However, here, the husband's Hafara is nothing by itself. Therefore we cannot say it takes effect retroactively, but you need to combine it with what happens after the whole Hakama and Heter. Therefore we cannot say they combine retroactively.

 
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